Update to my post below on insanely low remuneration and dodgy employment practices. The Brazilian-US chap in question has added the following comments, based on his sorry experience with a Brazilian employer up in the North-East. Obviously, this is just his perspective and I'm not saying it's the last word but I think his experience is salutary. Over to you Jonathan:
"The world needs to see how Brazilian companies operate and think. This amateur game playing is something that will cause the global audience to be reluctant in doing business with them. As someone described it to me: they are takers, it's in their DNA.
"They don't plan and they don't strategize. If there is any concern for the future they toss it aside because "God will take care of it as he sees fit." A pathetic excuse and an asinine mentality.
"It's truly amazing how these primitive locals behave. They begin by insulting me with R$1000 a month without any documentation to prove that I officially have a job: no Carteira de Trabalho signed or even a contract. I then push the guy for R$1500, only to be told: "I'm only going to pay you enough to survive because so far you haven't generated any income", this being only one week in !
"My reply was: 'The practice of Arbitration and Mediation is not selling used cars. And even if it were, salespersons receive a base salary and commission whereby their base salary is more than enough to merely survive.'
"Yet this manager has his entire group convinced he is looking out for their best interests by paying them only enough to survive on a weekly basis and not signing any documentation. This is illegal and a Federal offense. Moreover, they are misrepresenting themselves in the market as lawyers; none of these self-proclaimed Arbitrators are lawyers.
"The more I asked questions about the organization and practice the more uncomfortable he became, resulting in him telling me: "This is not going to work out." I have three more weeks left where I've been staying here in Fortaleza then off to who knows where ?
"Their treachery in taking advantage of others is not even subtle. They're amateurs."
Hi Jonathan, just curious: why would you take up a job "opportunity" with an employer who (excuse my language) seemed to be taking the piss right from the start?
ReplyDeleteIf this is an established business, you would be able to sue them for hiring you without a contract/carteira de trabalho, surely?
exactly. There are conmen everywhere, and your patronising attitude towards the "native locals' does not make me sympathetic to your situation. Unfortunately, some people are desperate enough to take any job, with or without documentation. It's called being poor and desperate.
ReplyDeleteDeb, afraid I can't agree. Your classification of "poor and desperate" is itself patronizing, as if only some people are allowed to be so. These days there are many people who might be seen as poor and desperate, to one degree or another. Jonathan was born in Brazil but has lived many years in the US before returning here. When he criticizes "the locals" he is clearly taking aim at those who wield some power, and indeed over him as his employer. As a US-Brazilian "desperately" in need of employment and living on a shoestring budget, moving wherever in Brazil he is able to find work, I think he is eminently more qualified to criticize than others who come here to visit or live in a expat cocoon.
ReplyDeleteAngelica: Because he is desperate ? If you weren't self-employed and had to rely on finding work in a Bazilian firm would you be quite so confident about things ? I know at least three people here who have had nothing but nightmares with domestic employers.
P adds that in areas like Fortaleza the poor are not so "desperate" since they were given Lula's Bolsa Familia. Indeed, many people we have met say this has acted as a deterrent to finding work. P's parents come from this area.
ReplyDeleteIn our politically correct world one must never say things like "primitive locals" of course. Perhaps I should have edited that out. But to me it was obvious that Jonathan is very upset and angry about what has happened, hence his perhaps poor choice of words. He has moved between Brasilia, Sao Paulo and now Fortaleza in pursuit of work, so I feel his frustration.
ReplyDeleteRob, to answer your question: I started working life as a McD burger flipper when I was 14 years old. After that I worked for several companies in Brasil before I left Brazil in 2002. At 15 I became a computer instructor, and worked for four companies on a single week whilst attending school in the evenings. And you know what? I would do it all over again if I had to.
ReplyDeleteI am self-employed nowadays because I wanted to 1) build my own business 2) didn't want to have to bend over backwards to abide to rules set by traditional workplaces, be it around pay, management policies or even career development. So I prefer to do my own thing.
I do appreciate that this is not an option that is possible/interesting to everybody, though. If going self-employed wasn't an option for me and I was desperately looking for a job. I would go and use my skills to work for the tourism industry if I was in the Northeast, and if that wasn't possible I'd work on the till of a supermarket, whatever.
Having said that I wouldn't go and work with any old dodgy character with equally dodgy working practices, let's put it that way.
In any case, I would NEVER let anyone f*** around with me, or steal my dignity.
He didn't intend the words for publication when he wrote them.
ReplyDeleteAngelica, interesting elaboration, thanks. Since employment is such a massive area and subject, it is almost impossible to generalize from any one person's experiences.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Jonathan's sorry tale doesn't typify Bazilian employment, or perhaps he was misguided or just unlucky ? I do know that he has made many efforts at employment since moving back here from the US. Maybe he'll come on this blog post and give more of his thoughts ?
As I acknowledged above, perhaps also his language looks a little too inflammatory when published rather than sent as a private email. if so, that's my bad call.
Whatever the peculiarities of his case, I am yet to be convinced that Brazilian employment practices are anywhere near the level they should be at for a supposedly fast-developing country.
Your personal experience as a Brazilian shows that you are a survivor, which is a great quality but as we know not necessarily the norm in any country.
Jonathan was unable to post on here for some reason but emailed me his comments:
ReplyDelete@ Deborah, even the poor and desperate need to be treated with respect,
and companies and organization need to comply with employment laws.
People being poor or desperate is not one of the exemptions in Brazilian
employment law. The alternative would be slave labor -something that I
hear may also be happening in China. These employers are predators and
exploiters. As they tell me they will do something I instinctively brace
myself for the worst case scenario for their word is worth less than the
breath used to articulate them. Obviously I am on to their game because
they refuse to put anything in writing. And, yes, all I need to do is
turn this company in to the Brazilian Department of Labor and they would
go in and shut them down.
As for me, even for someone with two (2) Masters degrees with honors
from a reputable university in the US, and even being cited in the Wall
Street Journal and CNN money as an expert, it is truly insulting and a
disgrace to be in Brazil. In one case, they recognize the talent and
skill and offer me a position to teach pos-graduate level class in
International Law to only pay R$30 an hour. Another University in
Brasilia, DF offered to pay me R$5,000 a month for the same class to
receive the entire amount of the contract only at the very end of the
three (3) months. It begs the question, this maneuver does not comply
with Brazilian Labor laws, and how would anyone expect to live during
these three (3) months?
Culturally, I consider myself more European/American than any stretch of
being Brazilian. I was born here and do speak the language but my DNA is
not. I came here to secure professional employment and expand my
horizons. At this point, however, I would rather not be associated with
predatory exploiters. The point of my post is because foreigners be it
individuals or companies need to be, at the very least, cognizant of
this cultural trait. If native Brazilians immigrate to the US and
Canada because they cannot even tolerate this mentality then there must
be some truth to this subject. At this point, I am done with this
repugnant mentality. To those, Brazilians -please don't get up, exert
yourself or go out of your way to make this country a better place. You
remain a third world country because the alternative requires too much
effort. There is an expression in the US that says "You can take a
person out the trailer park but you cannot take the trailer park
mentality out of the person -trailer trash" perfect candidates for the Jerry Springer Show.
Sure, and I am not saying that I am the holder of all wisdom or that anyone should go and do exactly as I said, even because I made some mistakes re professional choices in the past as well.
ReplyDeleteBut what I do believe is that anyone has a choice in life and that we should be creating opportunities rather than just sit and wait for them to happen. Not saying that this is Jonathan's case, but it is true that there are lots of people here in Brazil who think that, for example, a public sector career is the way to go! Look at the whole industry that has been created around the tests employed for pubsec jobs...my own family has plenty of pubsec workers, because it is a safe, easy path: once you get the foot on the door then you have a job for life.
What we do need in Brazil is people - very successful people in business, art, health and all sorts of careers - to show young people through government-backed initiatives in schools and universities that it is possible to make things happen, that no one needs to beg for a crap job, that they know their own value as a professional, as a person.
Deborah: Poor or desperate is not an exemption to any Brazilian Employment Law. You are missing the point or supplying a mediocre defense for these exploiters.
ReplyDeleteAngelica: I agree, I believe this is the point. I know my own value as a professional and person -as you -I do not like to be F*** with.
ReplyDeleteGood for you. As Gandhi said: "Be the change you want to see in the world."
ReplyDeleteI wish you luck in your search for employment.
Angelica: Answering your original question: The organization appeared and led me to believe they were credible -their initial idea was -work here for a week while we negotiate your salary -that alone should have erected a red flag but what the H.... I did it. During this time, however, I did some inside intelligence work, and learned of the practices. People had been employed for nearly five (5) years without papers. When it came to my salary and refusal to sign any papers...as I reminded him, this is why Employment Laws exist and Carteiras are signed -so companies and organizations do not exploit human resources.
ReplyDeleteCall the cops on them!
ReplyDeleteGlad to see you're now able to post here directly Jonathan. I think Angelica's last comment is excellent and I agree completely. But I would like to see home-grown talent, initiative and enterprise supplemented by imported equivalents from people such as Jonathan.
ReplyDeleteSomething needs to change drastically in this country to get things moving because for those people without jobs it's a race against time. Hope something will work out for you here Jonathan otherwise I absolutely wouldn't blame you for moving back to the US or elsewhere.
The additional disburting element is that they are falsly representing themselves and damaging the profession of Arbitration and Mediation. Self-proclaimed experts -like we also see in the deep south in the US. Self-proclaimed prophets and ministers. Show me the credentials. The Brazilian -jogo de cintura-only works to a minimal degree.
ReplyDeleteJogo de cintura, as I understand it, means the ability to remain flexible within an inflexible system, such as Brazil's.
ReplyDeleteAnother definition to Jogo de cintura may be, a creative means to bend the rules, ethics, laws, and corruption if needed to make things happen in their favor i.e. cut Human Resource cost by not signing a contract or signing a Carteira de Trabalho and convincing those that they are acting in their best interest. Treat people with dignity and they will work for you. Enough manipulation.
ReplyDeleteThanks for explaining Jonathan.
ReplyDelete